Survival Arts

Ken,

Indeed, the need for replacement melatonin does increase with age. Most of the people I've gotten feedback from are in my general age cohort, mid-30's to mid-40's, hence the rough "1 mg metric" for us.

Over time, the anterior lobe of the pituitary gland, where melatonin is produced and secreted, becomes progressively calcified. That's largely responsible for the phenomenon of older people sleeping less. It's a myth they need less sleep: they simply can't sleep as much as they actually need.

Melatonin is produced in the pineal gland. The pituitary gland produces growth hormones.

Thanks Dan; can't believe I made a goof that fundamental!

OMG! I just gave my sisters 3mg...THey have SCHOOL tomorrow...How are they going to wake up...

The normal dosage of n-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine is 1 mg but this dose can be increased to 3 mg in case of resistant insomnia or in an interventive or preventive treatment of postmenopausal osteoporosis (subject to tolerance of the product and absence of side effects).
I'm sure your sisters will be fine. Since Melatonin does increase secretion of n,n-DiMethylTryptamine they will probably have some really vivid dreams though. O.o

Is a 1 mg dose too much for a 10-year old who is having trouble getting to sleep? She weighs around 90 lbs...

Took a 3mg, first 2 weeks seemed to work. Now 2 months afterwards a 6mg does not make a difference. Mind you, It's 5.13 in the morning and I don't feel even sleepy...
The matrix has you wake up...

I started taking 1 mg. a few years ago...I have always been a light sleeper, wake at the slightest sound, then cannot get back to sleep.
with Melatonin, I go right to sleep, sleep soundly all nite...I still may wake up but if I do I can fall right back to sleep. I awake early, refreshed, I am now taking 6mg nightly
with the same results, and I feel great. I think the dosage depends on the individual.

I've been taking 6mg lately and been feeling great. I do party quite a bit and melatonin seems to put things right afterwards.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9844753&dopt=Abstract

IIRC, more recent studies have shown melatonin to be inefficacious.

I wrote that 2.5 years ago. I'm now inclined to believe the view mentioned by "Insomniacmedstudent".

6mg stopped working for me. I'm taking 9mg and it doesn't make me feel too groggy in the mornings. You think that a small dose would help a 140lb, 19 year old, girl, but it doesn't.

If you read "InsomniacMedstudents artical" it sings the praises of melatonin. The study found that the more they took, the better the effect was.

Note this study was only 320 people with a mear 73% actually proceeding with the study... it was to see if Melatonin would help it Jet Lag... it did.

All in all, it's the only way I can get to sleep at night. Normal drugs like Benadryl are completely ineffective for me, Valium was tried as well and I found M&M's to be as valuable and better tasteing than Valium.

My biggest issue is that my pain meds (Oxycodone) keep me up all night... They make me extremely hyperactive and chattery... Thank the makers for Melatonin.

just removed n o s p a m from my address if you need to reach me for some reason.

Hi there. Can anyone recommend a dose of melatonin for my son. He is 15 years old, 12 stone and has ADHD Tourettes OCD and is not sleeping at nights. He finally collapses into bed exhausted as we're all getting up in the morning!! I have been recommended to try melatonin, but dont know what dose to give him?

Any help welcome

Hello,
Oddly enough I'm also 15 with TS, OCD & ADHD :) and usually 1/2 a milligram is good to start with for teens then if needed raising it to about 1 mg. or 0.75 a milligram helps. Sometimes higher or lower just completely depending on his responce. If he's intrested in meeting someone else with TS/OCD/ADHD my email is urgodandiamnot@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Jen

I've been using 6mg melatonin cause 3mg did make me groggy the next day. Now 6mg makes me rested and happy. But seems like CoTylenol has a similar effect, NOT groggy, but VERY happy. All the anti-depressants except Lexapro made me a worse insomniac. Much cheaper and healthier (assumed) to just use melatonin, than to use anti-depressants.

several years ago, insomnia hit me, as well as such light sleeping that you could hardly call it sleeping at all. lower doses helped (under ten mg) in the same way that a half glass of water slakes a prodigious thirst. i ended up taking at least 20mg in tablets and an equal amount in a sublingual spray. The first nightI tried it I was knocked flat for a very profound sleep! I kept up a similar dose for almost two months, then reduced to about ten or fifteen mg, and then down to five, and then no more.
After that, I slept profoundly for the next several years. I know for a fact that a lower dosage did nothing perceivable at all!

Nathan Zakheim

several years ago, insomnia hit me, as well as such light sleeping that you could hardly call it sleeping at all. lower doses helped (under ten mg) in the same way that a half glass of water slakes a prodigious thirst. i ended up taking at least 20mg in tablets and an equal amount in a sublingual spray. The first nightI tried it I was knocked flat for a very profound sleep! I kept up a similar dose for almost two months, then reduced to about ten or fifteen mg, and then down to five, and then no more.
After that, I slept profoundly for the next several years. I know for a fact that a lower dosage did nothing perceivable at all!

Nathan Zakheim

I take 3 mg melatonin but it does nothig. I used to take 300mcg and it worked fine but I could not find it again so bought 3mg thinking it would make me go to sleep faster. I find the lower dosage actually works better for me. I am 60 yrs old.

I find that 250 mcg work well for me; yes, that's a quarter of 1 mg, However I am so very thirsty during the night. Does anyone else experience thirst seemingly from the melatonin?

Cindy, please have your blood sugar checked as excessive thirst is a symptom of diabetes. :)

One thing about taking melatonin is, it seems best to take it immediately before going to bed in a dark room. It helps the brain recognize that darkness means sleep.

Dealing with situational depression. Terrible early morning awakening! Just took 3 mg for the first time and waiting for it to hit home. Hope it works because I'm exhausted.

Good Day: I have been using melatonin intermittently for about two months now. I have done some light research into this hormone, as well, and my conclusion is: For people weighing over 60kg, it is best to start with 1mg, and check out how that dosage works. If you find yourself falling asleep with more ease than usual, and waking up refreshed (NO DROWSINESS), then don't up the dosage, as you've hit the spot. Melatonin is *not* a drug, it is a hormone, so the "more is better" theory does not necessarily apply. Paradoxically, in this case it seems as though "less is better". Remember that a 1mg dose still means you'll have much, much more melatonin running through your blood than a healty, non-supplement taker probably ever will.

Therefore, it is best to err on the side of caution. If you still can't fall asleep, it would probably be wise to try other methods (reducing intake of coffee, cigarrettes, alcohol or drugs. Or getting more excercise (in the morning, not in the evening!)or trying relaxation techniques such as yoga). Popping more pills will *not* cure your ills.

Best wishes to all, be prudent,

Gary

Thanks a lot for the comments everyone, I have been having problems sleeping for the past few years!

I am a very light sleeper and I have to wear earplugs to sleep everynight. I blacked out my blinds so there is absolutely no outside light coming into my room at night.

I am often very tired when I wake even when I sleep for 8 and sometimes 10 hours. My doctors rarely give me sleeping pills thinking that I am requesting them for recreational uses.

It doesnt help that I am a student and that my concentration span is really short because I always feel tired.

Now I am going to try melatonin, any advice for me? I am 22 and weight 135lbs, what dosage should I start at?

Does melatonin cause any physical or psychological symptoms if I stop taking it? Will I not be able to fall asleep if I miss 1 dose?

Thanks for sharing!

I was once happy with 250mcg/day. Then I had my second seizure and I was put on Dilantin which caused more insomnia (a rarer effect, but definitely possible). Then I started developing a tolerance which I never had. I seem to have stabilised at a 3mg timed release + 1.5 starting to get me to sleep and keep me sleeping for 4-6 hours. I then wake up and if I want to sleep more, I take another 3mg timed release + 0.75-1.5mg.

I hope it's not bad for me long term. I definitely feel great, refreshed, etc.

Sometimes my insomnia is resistant to even this dose. Then 5mg of zolpidem (Ambien) does the trick and results so far even in a better sleep. These sleeping pills (i.e., Ambien) don't give you a good sleep, but I think combined with melatonin, they are as good as a "normal" sleep. I dream intensely (which these medications are not supposed to encourage) and I wake up feeling refreshed. A very different experience from taking Ambien alone.

I'm 34 now and before I turned 30, I was able to sleep whenever, whereever, for however long. It's only now I'm having sleep problems. I've now cultivated a lot of good habits except one that I don't wish to, which is sleeping at a regular schedule. I'd rather suffer insomnia than be nonproductive, which for the work I do, depends on being able to work through projects continuously without stopping even if it takes 2-3 nights. Melatonin has been great at restoring (from 50-80%) of the previous control I had over my sleep.

Okay, I've figured this out. Phenytoin is a potent inducer of CYP3A/4, CYP1A2, and CYP2C9 liver enzymes. Which means OTHER substances metabolised by these enzymes are unlikely to be as effective.

Melatonin is metabolised by CYP1A2, and CYP2C19 and CYP2C9 to a lesser degree. So that's an obvious explanation for why I need to take more melatonin now that I'm on phenytoin.

And zolpidem (Ambien) is metabolised by the CYP3A enzymes, so again, I need more of that with phenytoin.

I'm 91 and after an extreme mental trauma have lived 74 years on sleeping pills, averaging 4 1/2 hours sleep. Today I am extremely healthy and have finally adjusted to 7:30 p.m.: 5 mg. melatonin, 9:30 p.m.: 1 tsp. gaba sublingually, 10:30 p.m.: 15 mg. dalmane. The insertion of melatonin made all the difference for sleeping 5 1/2 hours minimum.(Research dalmane for your own safety.) corkum45@aol.com

I'm 91 and after an extreme mental trauma have lived 74 years on sleeping pills, averaging 4 1/2 hours sleep. Today I am extremely healthy and have finally adjustedd to 7:30 p.m.: 5 mg. melatonin, 9:30 p.m.: 1 tsp. gaba sublingually, 10:30 p.m.: 15 mg. dalmane. The insertion of melatonin made all the difference for sleeping 5 1/2 hours minimum. (Research dalmane for your own safety.) corkum45@aol.com

i take melatonin for migraines and cluster headaches. Makes a world of a difference. i also use it as an occasional sleep aid. I take between 3-9 mg. depending upon the situation and amount of sleep i can get. The groggy aspect depends on how much sleep your really allowing yourself so dont get afraid. I am 19, 120 lbs and have been using this supplement for a year successfully. Also it has been proven to increase dream activity, nightmares and pleasant, and helps with remembering them as well. As for using it as a sleep aid/dream enhancer...you can safely mix it with b6 or b12 for even better success and refreshing daytime energy.

Just bought some melatonin to help sleep on a long plane trip so we can be "fresh" when we land, 11 hours later.

What dosage would anyone suggest for a one-time use by a 70lb 9yo and 100lb 13 yo?

Thanks.

I have been taking ambien for 10 years. Then I had back surgery three years ago, and was put on Norco (pain med)which I continue to take. Then two years ago I have had to take 1 1/2 to 2 tablets ambien(10mg tablets)in order to sleep. I don't like taking that much. I also have arthritis and take arava 20mg everyday. I started taking melatonin 4 mg. Was able to delete the Norco at bedtime and reduce ambien to one 10mg tablet at bedtime and was able to get to sleep faster. However, I woke up several times at night and awoke in the morning with my arthritis bothering me much more. Would the melatonin have anything to do with this?>
Thank you
Nancy

I don't understand URL ?????????

I've been taking 1mg. melatonin for a few months now when I first started I went to bed and slept so soundly waking refreshed. Since then I have been started on highblood presure pills and anxcity med. I take all these at night due to the fact that they claim to make a person drowsy. I am unable to fall asleep until 4am. Also someone said i shouldn'[t take melatonin every night so I've stopped for awhile ie this true or is it safe to take everynight and should I take more melatonin if I wiegh more than the average person?

I started taking melatonin about six months ago and it is by far the most effective sleep remedy available. I have severe anxiety and PTSD and on a normal night my body will not allow me to sleep until 4:30 in the morning (only to be back up at 6!) My initial dose was 1mg, which did nothing. Then I tried 3mg which worked quite effectively for about two nights. My dosage has steadily increased until, for the past six months, I've been taking between 15 and 35 mg per night, depending on how severely my PTSD/anxiety is that day. It works almost as good as my prescription Xananx only without turning my mind into jello like the meds do. Melatonin is a miracle for me. The only question I have is whether or not taking such high doses (compared to the 1mg most people seem to take!) is unhealthy. I've been taking high doses for six months now and I've seen only benefits from it, but perhaps there are long term effects I'm not aware of. Does anybody know?

I was given ambian for sleeplessness due to anxiety/ADHD. It was ok but could actually fight the sleepyness off. Then tried time released melatonin. Way better!!! I don't bother with ambian at all. However I ran out of time released version and bought what I could find. I would then wake up at two am every time. So I highly recommend time released. Also start way low and work ur way up. low meaning micrograms.
Other best advice ever was nightlights!! Highly recommend esp if u wake up for restroom visits at night. Keeps u from breaking neck or full wakefullness from room light.

I am 63 and have 10 years taking 1/2 mg of melatonin and sleep really perfect for 6.5 to 7 hours daily. I started 10 years ago with 3 mgs but had lots of dreams of my chilhood and very distant persons in my life.

Melatonin has a marvelous secondary effect to prevent depresion as I was informed 10 years ago by an Italian scientist. Maybe has to do with Tryptophan.

what is the dose of melatonin as an antioxidant in inflammatory conditions?

what is the dose of melatonin as an antioxidant in inflammatory conditions?and duration of treatment

Remember: taking melatonin daily is going to send a signal to your body that *it* doesn't need to make melatonin. What's it gonna do in response? It's gonna let the body part that makes melatonin shrivel up and die.

That's technical terminology, mind you. ;)

But seriously, although I've seen no research on the subject of melatonin supplementation and it's effect on the pineal gland's function, when people are given thyroid hormone, the thyroid shrivels up and dies. When given testosterone, people's testes shrivel up. They're just not needed.

So don't take melatonin daily for long stretches unless you plan on taking it *forever*.

A better idea is this: find 2 acceptable sleep aids, for example melatonin and ambien. Then alternate: one week melatonin, the next week ambien, the following week melatonin, etc. In this way, you should avoid both physical dependence on ambien OR physical dependence on (i.e. a shrunken pineal gland) melatonin. Thus, you ought to be able to discontinue use of the medications without physical withdrawal the Ambien or a new underlying issue, i.e. a dysfunctional pineal gland. So, if something about your situation changes, perhaps you'll find a new exercise program results in you drifting off to sleep before you even popped a pill. If you were physically dependent on Ambien (simple drug dependence) or on the melatonin (because your pineal gland said "why bother?" to maintaining its ability to produce melatonin), you would not find yourself spontaneously falling asleep, even if whatever is wrong now is fixed.

For this reason, I suggest you alternate medications. It's a simple notion, and anecdotal evidence indicates it's effective. Certainly, there's no reason to assume it to be more dangerous than taking either medication exclusively.

And, finally, I recommend the absolute lowest possible dose be taken. We're talking about LESS than 1 mg. A product I've recently sampled had .3 mg of melatonin. And, under no circumstances should a child be put on daily melatonin -- or any sleep drug -- without exhausting ALL other possible interventions. Occasional sleep aids are absolutely fine, even once or twice a week. (Any more than that and psych. dependence sets in.) However, in a growing child, playing with hormones is NOT a good idea. I'm honestly tempted to say that a pharmaceutical would be a better idea, if one had to choose between the two. I'm almost certain you'll find a better way.

To the mothers of the so-called ADHD kids: try getting them off of the stimulant drugs first, then look into sleep aids if their problems don't clear up.

Did you know Adderall is amphetamine? Literally. Not methamphetamine, but amphetamine. No shit. Who'd a guessed it? We try to get kids not to use (meth)amphetamine, but we encourage them to take amphetamine -- the effects are nearly identical, meth just lasts a little longer. Nobody can distinguish the two subjectively. Ritalin has very similar mode of action, it's actually just like cocaine.

So, for god's sake, try dropping the stimulants before you add sleep aids into the mix!!!!!!! Drugs are fine; I'm pro-drug. Legalize em all. Adults should be able to live their lives. And drugs can enhance lives. HOWEVER, drugs have much more profound effects during childhood when we're still growing. I'll tell you: you'd get up in arms if your 15 year old was smoking a joint or two and drinking a six-pack on the weekend, but taking Adderall and even melatonin everyday, while perhaps helping materially in the present, is almost certainly causing a greater degree of brain change (damage is often or always a subjective distinction) than such weekend recreational drug use of those two most common recreational drugs.

So be careful. Melatonin is a hormone. You need to exercise as much caution as when dealing in any hormone. BY GIVING A CHILD MELATONIN EVERY NIGHT YOU ARE UNDERTAKING A PROGRAM OF HORMONE REPLACEMENT. Play it conservative -- at the very least, consider the alternation of sleep aids week to week if sleep aids prove to be a nightly necessity. I will say this: if you are committed to taking melatonin for the rest of your life, and to your kid taking it for the rest of his life, at a small dose (.2 mg to an absolute max of 1 mg), there may not be any consequences. The body is usually very complex, but some hormone replacement therapies work simply: testosterone in a pill makes your balls shrivel up, but that's it. But hormone replacement therapy for menopausal women turned out to cause all kinds of odd problems. If I had to guess, I would assume that melatonin tends to be more likely testosterone in this respect. However, the research on long term ("side")effects just isn't there.

Best of luck to all of you, and to all your kids!

May you use your melatonin in health -- and only when it's long term effects are outweighed by its benefits.

I am 76 years old and have had many bout s with insomnia. I have also always been an early riser. About six months ago I started taking melatonin (at 76 yrs what did I have to lose?) I took 3mg at about sevenPM and another 3mg with my other meds at 9PM.
On that schedule I started sleeping in. I dropped the 9PM dosage. I now awaken at 5Am every morning feeling really refreshed. I am a sleep apneac and have used and still use a CPAP, but CPAP alone did not do it. I was always groggy and fell asleep almost every time I sat down.

Question.
Is it possible for an overdose of melatonin to kill a person?

Have been waking up a few times a night for a long time, wake up tired, etc. So my doctor prescribed melatonin, but doesn't offer a dosage. The package suggest 1 to 3 tabs and these are 3mg tabs. I figure more is better, so for 3 weeks I have been taking 3 x 3mg (9mg) before bedtime. I honestly didn't feel much of a difference, and didn't feel any better or worst in the morning. An article at http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html suggest that in fact "less is more" when it comes to melatonin. A dosage of 1/3 mg is recommended. I am cutting back to 1/2 of a 3mg (1.5mg) tablet and will see if there is any improvement.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html

3 mg did nothing for me.
6 mg wasn't any better.
9 mg did nothing either.
18 mg and I got some sleep, intermitant and not the best quality, but something is better than nothing.

Melatonin definitely makes me sleepy
I have been taking 6-9 mgs.
After reading these comments, I am going to try taking only 3mg tomorrow and see what happens

i love 3mg. does the trick everynight 1 hour before bed!

I have heard that a small dose 5-6 hours before bedtime...say .5 mg and then a larger dose, say 3mg, right at bedtime works really great for some people. Anyone else heard of this?

I am a 262lb 40 year old male. I find it necessary to have a combination to sleep properly and through the night. 3mg melatonin, 7.5mg zopiclone, 500mg valerian, 50mg diphenhydramine hydrochloride (Nytol), and 12mg chlorpheniramine maleate.

If you want to have some crazy dreams, take about 50mg one night. I wouldn't recommend it every night as that could get a big expensive, but you will fell sooooooo rested and some crazy lucid dreams.